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    • AMMDI is an open-notebook hypertext writing experiment, authored by Mike Travers aka mtraven. It's a work in progress and some parts are more polished than others. Comments welcome! More.
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from The Trap, Adam Curtis documentary
  • Here's my take: self-interestedness at some level has to be true, it;s the basis for life. But there's a big difference between this largely unconscious self-interest and "conscious purpose" as Gregory Bateson called it.
from Infrastructure of intention
from Francisco Varela
from Weird Studies/Michael Garfield
  • Some stuff about extension of the nervous system (after Gregory Bateson ) but I'm not sure what the issue, isn't it obvious that technologies extend our nervous system? Mentioning Jaron Lanier and haptic feedback...JFM seems confused, insisting on the reality of the self, the others seem closer to my (correct) view. "The absolute singularity of your personal experience". Irreducible and real.
    • Hm, seeing hints of his Catholicism, manifested here as virulent opposition to anything that seems to point towards nihilism. I don't think I necessarily agree, but I appreciate his forthrightness and his ability to articulate these strong feelings.
from LWMap/Being a Robust Agent
  • Just want to note that this is the opposite of Gregory Bateson's thesis that conscious purpose is usually bad and we should pay a lot more attention to evolution.
from The Flip, Jeffrey Kripal
  • I don't think my POV is that unique; it's basically the same as that of Gregory Bateson and other cybernetics types: mind and nature are one, not separate, and you don't have to choose one side or the other of the false dichotomy.
from anti-purpose
  • Gregory Bateson's "Conscious Purpose vs. Nature" might be the best statement of this point of view. Note the qualifier – he's not against unconscious purpose, which presumably has closer ties to Nature. An equivalent standpoint is to say that goals work best when they are illegible or at least partly so.
from naturalism
from panpsychism
  • Does Gregory Bateson count as a panpsychist? I guess so, although I think his view was subtly different. He'd blanch at the curt definition from Panpsychism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy: "Panpsychism is the view that all things have a mind or a mind-like quality." And he'd say that mind is not a quality that inheres in things, it's a function of relationship.
    • The term does not appear in his Mind and Nature, FWIW
from unus mundus
  • Just came across this term (from Weird Studies, naturally) and wonder what's the big deal. As a computationalist, I am perfectly happy with the idea that the worlds of psyche and matter are in reality the same world. And not just intellectually, it is part of my work, my practice. Gregory Bateson wrote a whole book on this (Mind and Nature: A Necessary Unity).
from II Cybernetic Frontiers
from against dualism
from Answer to Job
  • Emphasis added, and I want a word to designate this attitude and its opposite, that psychic phenomenon are not only on their own level but actually violate physics. This is very common in the Jungian/occultish/weird world, and is related to their picture of the natural world as a "flat circle" from which no creativity can emerge, that nature requires "miracles" to produce mind. Contrast eg with Gregory Bateson 's mind-nature unity.
from David Bentley Hart
  • Sounds like Gregory Bateson, I'm down with that. (Nobody is "banishing mind", at least, nobody I care about).
from Urizen
  • But it isn't Mind as such, more like the aspect of the mind that is narrowly goal-seeking. A stupid form of smartness. What Gregory Bateson was talking about in Conscious Purpose vs Nature, although I don't think there's anything exactly unnatural about it.
from weird naturalism
from goddinpotty/DONE
  • DONE Problem seems to be on page Gregory Bateson – has backlink that renders incorrectly with sidenote
from My philosophy which is mine

Gregory Bateson

30 Oct 2021 02:15 - 01 Sep 2022 04:17
Open in Logseq
    • If you allow purpose to organize that which comes under your conscious inspection, what you will get is a bag of tricks-some of them very valuable tricks. It is an extraordinary achievement that these tricks have been discovered; all that I don't argue. But still we do not know two-penn'orth, really, about the total network system.
    • But what worries me is the addition of modern technology to the old system. Today the purposes of consciousness are implemented by more and more effective machinery, transportation systems, airplanes, weaponry, medicine, pesticides, and so forth. Conscious purpose is now empowered to upset, the balances of the body, of society
    • He actually equates conscious purpose with the fall from Eden:
    • There was once a Garden. .... In that garden, there were two anthropoids who were more intelligent than the other animals.
    • On one of the trees there was a fruit, very high up, which the two apes were unable to reach: So they began to think. That was the mistake. They began to think purposively.
    • By and by, the he ape, whose name was Adam, went and got an empty box and put it under the tree and stepped on it, but he found he still couldn't reach the fruit. So he got another box and put it on top of the first. Then he climbed up on the two boxes and finally he got that apple.
    • Adam and Eve then became almost drunk with excitement. This was the way to do things. Make a plan, ABC and you get D.
    • They then began to specialize in doing things the planned way. In effect, they cast out from the Garden the concept of their own total systemic nature and of its total systemic nature.

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